Episode Summary
Most transformation programmes are built around the hardware of an organisation: the systems, the ERP rollout, the AI licences switched on and handed out. Michael J. López, consultant, author of
CHANGE, and the person behind a new national workforce study of 1,000 workers, has spent two decades delivering that traditional playbook, and the last five trying to change it. His starting point is simple: when his team asked employees for the top five things they get from their company during change and the top five things they actually need, the two lists had nothing in common. What people get is the stuff done
to them. What they need is the stuff done
by them.
The conversation with Dan and Pia moves from diagnosis to what leaders can actually do differently. Michael names the “failure minimisation cycle,” where everyone downplays how hard change will be to get budgets approved, which leaves people under-resourced and more cynical each time. His alternative is to treat change as a capability rather than a project: stress-tolerant cultures, executive teams that genuinely lead together, goals people feel they’ve contributed to, and progress measured through behavioural inputs and stories as well as hard outputs. It’s an honest episode about why change takes 18–24 months, and why pretending otherwise costs more.
Key Themes & Takeaways
- In Michael’s study, the top five things employees receive during change (emails, communications, training) had zero overlap with the top five they need (experimentation, room for productive mistakes, coaching, leaders going first, the right environment).
- The “failure minimisation cycle” is well-intentioned but corrosive: underselling complexity to win approval leaves people under-resourced, so change feels harder than promised and trust drops with every programme.
- Treat change as an organisational capability, a muscle built over time, rather than a project with an end date, because the next change is always coming.
- 65% of employees in the study felt their company’s change plan asked them to move faster than was realistic; the systems can be installed quickly, but people need more time.
- The “what’s in it for me” document rarely moves anyone; people commit to goals they feel they’ve contributed ideas and effort to, not goals handed down with a reward attached.
- The CEO’s job includes preparing the executive team to lead change together; a committee without a committed champion is where programmes stall.
- Measure progress through “hard input signals” (new leadership and team behaviours) and “soft signals” (stories and cultural shifts), not only red-amber-green dashboards of outputs.
Three Reasons to Listen
Listen if you’ve watched a transformation programme get approved on a promise everyone privately knew was too optimistic, and then watched people pay the price for it.
Listen if your AI rollout amounted to “here are the licences, go and innovate” and you’re wondering why so little has changed.
Listen if you’ve ever been expected to show certainty in a planning meeting when the honest answer was “we’ll learn as we go.”
Notable Quotes
“What we tend to get from change is all the stuff that’s done to people. And what employees really said is we need all the stuff that’s done by people.”
—
Michael J. López
“I believe that change is about accuracy more than about precision.”
—
Michael J. López
“It does take boldness in a world where people mistake confidence for competence.”
—
Dan Hammond
Resources from Michael
